Discussion:
Soldering a Sanken COS-11
(too old to reply)
mtsuskyman
2005-05-26 20:14:28 UTC
Permalink
Larry,
I understand your sentiment. My soldering skills are much like house
painting with metal. However, the Trew Audio wiring department wires
hundreds of lavs a month, including the COS-11s with a TA5F. Dean,
Celeste, and Aza have it down to a science. I appreiciate you vote of
confidence in your dealers abilities to make it all work together.
Thanks.

Skylor Morgan
Product Specialist
Trew Audio Inc.
Pietari Koskinen
2005-05-26 21:21:26 UTC
Permalink
Another reason to use only 4060s.

Pietari
I tried wiring a Sanken Cos-11 mic to an TA5F connector (SM
transmitter) yesterday and just had a heck of a time. Inside that
innocent looking audio cable, are two shields, three wires, and three
fibre strands the size of the wires. Then, inside two of the wires are
copper cobwebs wound around yet another fiber center.
ggriswold
2005-05-26 21:45:07 UTC
Permalink
Solution1- Send it off to Trew. Then you can really trust it.

Solution2- I have successfully done this, but you need a few special
tools. Best stripper is a surgical scalpel with a pointed blade, a
medical supply can supply those. It is super sharp and you can feel
when you are through the insulation. Also a Weller solder station like
the EC200M that you can dial in the temperature and use a super tiny
pencil tip. Lastly get one of those geeky looking, but highly effective
jewelers magifiers, get the good ones with glass lenses. I use an
Opti-Visor DA-5. Be sure to check the magifying power or you will end
up having to be too close when you are working and breath solder fumes.

This takes incredible patience and steady hands, but can be done. The
real beastly part of the process is soldering to two surface mount caps
to block the RF from getting into the mic capsule-- I do this after the
wires are attached. Oh, don't forget the valium.

At the end of the day it really is easier to send it off and enjoy the
lack of frustration and peace of mind. The Sanken can not be rewired,
so chopping away at the pigtail has serious economic impacts long-term.
I have the ultimate admiration for people who do this daily-- makes
wiring a 3 pin XLR seem like child's play.

George
Eric Toline
2005-05-26 21:59:44 UTC
Permalink
Unless the hardwired COS-11 has a different cable assembly, I didn't
find it a problem when I made a hardwired COS11 into a wireless by
cutting the cable and putting on a TA5F.

Eric
m***@soundtq.co.nz
2005-05-26 22:13:30 UTC
Permalink
I know what it's like Larry!

I have to use my surgeons magnifying aid too.

Good to hear you've got you sleeves rolled up!

Regards from all at Sound Techniques

Mike
www.soundtq.co.nz
RC
2005-05-26 22:27:17 UTC
Permalink
Really really hot iron. Heat the be-jesus out of it, it will melt the
kevlar, (stinks, smokes) then put rosin solder to it. Keep tapping the
solder to the cobwebs till it adheres.

Ray
Jason Porter
2005-07-27 00:27:29 UTC
Permalink
I have to "second" the Trew Audio recommendation. Whoever does the work at
the Toronto location is an expert as well.

-Jason
I tried wiring a Sanken Cos-11 mic to an TA5F connector (SM
transmitter) yesterday and just had a heck of a time. Inside that
innocent looking audio cable, are two shields, three wires, and three
fibre strands the size of the wires. Then, inside two of the wires are
copper cobwebs wound around yet another fiber center. After starting
over several times, I finally just cut off the two outer shields back
to the insulation and just worked with the single ground wire to pin
1. Stripping the insulation from the black drain-bias wire and the
white source-audio wire was cause for starting over several more
times. The insulation is tough and the copper strands are about the
size of spider web. On top of that, there is a kevlar (?) fiber center
among the cobweb wires. I can definitely say that having the copper
and fiber mixed doesn't solder worth a dang. It makes a cold solder
joint that breaks or pulls loose with the slightest tug. Start over a
couple more times.
Removing the kevlar from the bundle made the cobwebs solderable but
there was absolutely no strength left and the wires again broke with
the slightest pull. That required starting over twice more. Standard
strippers weren't small enough for the wire and sharp dikes broke some
of the cobwebs and scrambled the remaining wire with the fiber. Start
over again. Cable is now about 14" shorter. I got some thermal
strippers and found that they melted the insulation all over the
copper fiber bundle. Arrrgh! Picking the plastic away using a
standard issue fingernail left a bundle with a copper outside and a
fiber center. Oddly enough this soldered fairly well. The next faster
pass with the thermal strippers gave me a little cleaner bundle that
cleaned up a little easier and soldered OK, fiber and all.
The trick on the tiny wires, seems to be to leave the bundle intact
with the copper cobwebs on the outside and just solder the whole tiny
mess. My question here is, has anybody got an easy technique for
stripping, handling and soldering the wire and fibers? I'm going to
make up a "how to" sheet on wiring one of these to an SM or UM
transmitter since you also need to get a 3.3k resistor, insulation
tubing and a jumper wire into the TA5F for a setup compatible with
both a UM and a SM transmitter. The SM by itself doesn't need the
resistor or the tubing if you can live with it working only with the
SM. Most people are going to want the harder to build, universal
solution, I think. I'd like to recommend a stripping technique that
doesn't require thermal strippers since they aren't in everyone's
toolbox.
I'm guessing that what I need is a stripper that will handle the tiny,
tough insulation on the inner wires without breaking the cobwebs. If
someone has had good results wiring these mics, let me know the
particulars so I can recommend the technique. After four frustrating
hours, I decided that whatever the dealers charge for wiring one of
these monsters is cheap.
Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
Lectrosonics
Glen Trew
2005-05-27 03:51:25 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Jason.

In Toronto, that would be Harry or Kris.

GT
Post by Jason Porter
I have to "second" the Trew Audio recommendation. Whoever does the work at
the Toronto location is an expert as well.
-Jason
wolf
2005-06-01 17:16:18 UTC
Permalink
Cine Gear Expo 2005
June 3 - 4
Warner Bros. Studios, Burbank, CA.
www.cinegearexpo.com

a reminder
wolf
2005-06-09 20:17:00 UTC
Permalink
easy access
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.production.sound?hl=en

you have to register when posting - unfortunatly in Netscape every time because
it does not remember your password but the reader is much nicer

Now I read from Netscape newsgroup reader which requires only one registration
at start up under File subscribe.
wolf
2005-06-09 20:19:59 UTC
Permalink
easy access
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.production.sound?hl=en

you have to register when posting - unfortunatly in Netscape every time because
it does not remember your password but the reader is much nicer

Now I read from Netscape newsgroup reader which requires only one registration
at start up under File subscribe.
wolf
2005-06-09 20:20:14 UTC
Permalink
easy access
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.production.sound?hl=en

you have to register when posting - unfortunatly in Netscape every time because
it does not remember your password but the reader is much nicer

Now I read from Netscape newsgroup reader which requires only one registration
at start up under File subscribe.
wolf
2005-06-09 20:20:29 UTC
Permalink
easy access
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.production.sound?hl=en

you have to register when posting - unfortunatly in Netscape every time because
it does not remember your password but the reader is much nicer

Now I read from Netscape newsgroup reader which requires only one registration
at start up under File subscribe.
€R€ b€rto•
2005-06-09 20:32:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by wolf
easy access
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.production.sound?hl=en
you have to register when posting - unfortunatly in Netscape every time because
it does not remember your password but the reader is much nicer
Now I read from Netscape newsgroup reader which requires only one registration
at start up under File subscribe.
Better get a proper Usenet reader like
http://www.forteinc.com/agent/index.php

Free agent can use for example Kill Filters, something the Google
mirror's does not offer. Windows only.

R ( usenetting since 1995 )







--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html
martin griffith
2005-06-09 21:14:13 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 22:32:36 +0200, in
Post by €R€ b€rto•
Post by wolf
easy access
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.production.sound?hl=en
you have to register when posting - unfortunatly in Netscape every time because
it does not remember your password but the reader is much nicer
Now I read from Netscape newsgroup reader which requires only one registration
at start up under File subscribe.
Better get a proper Usenet reader like
http://www.forteinc.com/agent/index.php
Free agent can use for example Kill Filters, something the Google
mirror's does not offer. Windows only.
R ( usenetting since 1995 )
I'll second that, google gruups is crap compared to the "Real Thing"

(I'm a lurker here)


martin
Larry Fisher
2005-06-09 23:07:46 UTC
Permalink
I'll third that since I've used the paid version of Agent (fortenic)
for many years. However, Google is always my backup if I think
something isn't getting posted to my news server. Plius Google
archives everything forever and you can use it when you away from your
main machine. Plus Google doesn't require any setup or even a news
server. And, yes, it is a pain to navigate and post.
LarryF
Lectro

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:14:13 +0200, martin griffith
<***@XXyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]
Post by martin griffith
Post by €R€ b€rto•
Better get a proper Usenet reader like
http://www.forteinc.com/agent/index.php
Free agent can use for example Kill Filters, something the Google
mirror's does not offer. Windows only.
R ( usenetting since 1995 )
I'll second that, google gruups is crap compared to the "Real Thing"
(I'm a lurker here)
martin
Charles Tomaras
2005-06-09 23:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Fisher
I'll third that since I've used the paid version of Agent (fortenic)
for many years. However, Google is always my backup if I think
something isn't getting posted to my news server. Plius Google
archives everything forever and you can use it when you away from your
main machine. Plus Google doesn't require any setup or even a news
server. And, yes, it is a pain to navigate and post.
LarryF
Lectro
Outlook Express....still going strong for everything except for YENC encoded
binary files... but then again how much smut does a man really need?
unknown
2005-06-10 01:31:57 UTC
Permalink
====SNIP====
...but then again how much smut does a man really need?
You don't really want us to answer that, do you?

John Blankenship, C.A.S.
Indianapolis
(email: my initials at mw daht net)


Martin Harrington
2005-06-10 02:25:19 UTC
Permalink
Is that why I get gibberish...now I know.
We must talk about this, Charlie. ;>)
--
Martin Harrington
www.lendanear-sound.com
Post by Charles Tomaras
Post by Larry Fisher
I'll third that since I've used the paid version of Agent (fortenic)
for many years. However, Google is always my backup if I think
something isn't getting posted to my news server. Plius Google
archives everything forever and you can use it when you away from your
main machine. Plus Google doesn't require any setup or even a news
server. And, yes, it is a pain to navigate and post.
LarryF
Lectro
Outlook Express....still going strong for everything except for YENC
encoded binary files... but then again how much smut does a man really
need?
j***@gmail.com
2005-06-09 23:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by €R€ b€rto•
Better get a proper Usenet reader like
http://www.forteinc.com/agent/index.php
Free agent can use for example Kill Filters, something the Google
mirror's does not offer. Windows only.
R ( usenetting since 1995 )
Google Groups is much better than it used to be. I read usenet with a
different reader, but posting & searching via Google Groups works well
for me

J (usenetting since 1985...only because I went to UC Berkeley, though)
Jeff Wexler
2005-06-09 23:29:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by €R€ b€rto•
Better get a proper Usenet reader like
http://www.forteinc.com/agent/index.php
I use Entourage (similar to Outlook but for Mac) and also MT-Newswatcher
<http://www.smfr.org/mtnw/>

I am interested in the best method to read and post to r.a.m.p.s.
directly from the web (for times when web access is all I have). I will
look into Goggle and hopefully it has improved.

Regards, Jeff Wexler
j***@gmail.com
2005-06-09 23:36:15 UTC
Permalink
I will look into Goggle and hopefully it has improved.
It has improved (but has a ways to go). However, I can use it w/o
hassle...and there is some flexibility in how it displays information.

Just so it's handy, here's a link:

<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.production.sound>

Jim
Glen Trew
2005-06-11 04:03:32 UTC
Permalink
Outlook Express does it for me after hours. The problem is that you have to
subscribe to a newsgroup server that is usually not availble when not
attached to your regular internet provider (such as when traveling).

But on the rare occaisions I lurk and post from work (please don't tell the
boss) I use the link on the trewaudio homepage (when you're through looking
at the girl, scroll down and look near the bottom left). Whoops... forgot to
put the FS in the subject line!

I've noticed that Google has gotten much better in that posts appear quickly
now (it used to take several hours). Also, I've recently discovered that
posts can be "sorted by date of most recent message", which can be a big
time saver. The search function is also a big plus and can call up results
quickly even if they are very old.

GT
Post by j***@gmail.com
I will look into Goggle and hopefully it has improved.
It has improved (but has a ways to go). However, I can use it w/o
hassle...and there is some flexibility in how it displays information.
<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.production.sound>
Jim
Martin Harrington
2005-06-10 00:06:17 UTC
Permalink
Yep, except that it posts 4 times for the one post....not good.
--
Martin Harrington
www.lendanear-sound.com
Post by wolf
easy access
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.production.sound?hl=en
you have to register when posting - unfortunatly in Netscape every time
because it does not remember your password but the reader is much nicer
Now I read from Netscape newsgroup reader which requires only one
registration at start up under File subscribe.
j***@gmail.com
2005-06-10 02:21:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Harrington
Yep, except that it posts 4 times for the one post....not good.
"It" must refer to Netscape since I'm posting from Google Groups and it
doesn't look like I'm generating multiple posts...

But enough of this...let's get back to RAMPS.

Jim
Ty Ford
2005-06-10 12:45:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@gmail.com
Post by Martin Harrington
Yep, except that it posts 4 times for the one post....not good.
"It" must refer to Netscape since I'm posting from Google Groups and it
doesn't look like I'm generating multiple posts...
But enough of this...let's get back to RAMPS.
Jim
Hogwasher 4.x for Mac folks.

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Ty Ford
2005-05-27 13:44:41 UTC
Permalink
I tried wiring a Sanken Cos-11 mic to an TA5F connector (SM
transmitter) yesterday and just had a heck of a time. Inside that
innocent looking audio cable, are two shields, three wires, and three
fibre strands the size of the wires. Then, inside two of the wires are
copper cobwebs wound around yet another fiber center. After starting
over several times, I finally just cut off the two outer shields back
to the insulation and just worked with the single ground wire to pin
1. Stripping the insulation from the black drain-bias wire and the
white source-audio wire was cause for starting over several more
times. The insulation is tough and the copper strands are about the
size of spider web. On top of that, there is a kevlar (?) fiber center
among the cobweb wires. I can definitely say that having the copper
and fiber mixed doesn't solder worth a dang. It makes a cold solder
joint that breaks or pulls loose with the slightest tug. Start over a
couple more times.
Two words; Wild Turkey. :)

Ty Ford




-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
unknown
2005-05-27 16:31:39 UTC
Permalink
I tried wiring a Sanken Cos-11 mic to an TA5F connector (SM
transmitter) yesterday and just had a heck of a time. Inside that
====SNIP====
I have wired several of these -- both the newer cable and the older,
thinner one. I don't recall it being especially difficult compared to
other similar connections. It takes a bit of time to get it all right,
what with the tiny capacitors and the resistor, but that's to be
expected. I don't remember which tool I used to strip it. It was
probably either a pair of micro dikes or maybe an Exacto knife. My kit
includes a battery powered soldering iron with a micro tip and I imagine
I used that.

I have a replacement COS-11 on its way to me in the mail so I'll make it
a point to pay attention when I wire it up.

I'm hoping the fact that I'm paying attention doesn't mean that I'll now
have a bear of a time.

John Blankenship, C.A.S.
Indianapolis
(email: my initials at mw daht net)


ggriswold
2005-05-27 18:23:32 UTC
Permalink
John,
Hope you didn't jinx yourself. That is why I never say, "I have never
dropped a camera".

Have a great weekend,
George
d rosen
2005-06-06 12:48:13 UTC
Permalink
[ I'm going to
make up a "how to" sheet on wiring one of these to an SM or UM
transmitter since you also need to get a 3.3k resistor, insulation
tubing and a jumper wire into the TA5F for a setup compatible with
both a UM and a SM transmitter. The SM by itself doesn't need the
resistor or the tubing if you can live with it working only with the
SM. Most people are going to want the harder to build, universal
solution, ]
to larry or anyone else that can help,

i have some cos-11s wired for sony radios and due to a recent breakage
to a cos-11 wired for my um400 i'm going to have a go at re wiring
these for the lectro um400 that i have.
i'm a bit confused about larry's above statement, the technical info
on the lectro site and most of all by what i see in the TA5Fs that i
had made for me in the states-which DO NOT appear to have any
resistors/capacitors in the wiring of the TA5F.

if i am just wiring the cos-11 for use with a um400 does it need to
have the 3.3k resistor mentioned above?
if the mics i have at present (wired for the um400) do not have this
resitor what is the effect on the audio?
is it possible for a cos-11 to be wired with a TA5F connector for a
um400 but also work with a sony radio-via an adapter cable (TA5M-hirose
4p)?
what bearing does the resistor have on the answer to the last question?

dan.
unknown
2005-06-06 14:00:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by d rosen
I'm going to
make up a "how to" sheet on wiring one of these to an SM or UM
transmitter since you also need to get a 3.3k resistor, insulation
tubing and a jumper wire into the TA5F for a setup compatible with
both a UM and a SM transmitter. The SM by itself doesn't need the
resistor or the tubing if you can live with it working only with the
SM. Most people are going to want the harder to build, universal
solution, ]
if i am just wiring the cos-11 for use with a um400 does it need to
have the 3.3k resistor mentioned above?
if the mics i have at present (wired for the um400) do not have this
resitor what is the effect on the audio?
====SNIP====
Larry, if you're looking in:

I'm a little confused, too. I've always wired my COS-11s using the
instructions from the Lectrosonics site. This does not call for a
resistor, just the bypass capacitors. I'm using the UM200C transmitters
and this configuration has always worked fine. Are you saying that if I
add some 400s to my system I would need to rewire all my Sankens? What
about other lavs? Would they need to be rewired also?

Which transmitter(s) need the resistor, and why?

Thanks,

John Blankenship, C.A.S.
Indianapolis
(email: my initials at mw daht net)


Larry Fisher
2005-06-06 17:12:23 UTC
Permalink
Hi John and Daniel,
The wiring for the COS-11 on our web site is correct for all Lectro
transmitters except the SM. The SM wiring is a "little" different for
3 wire mics. The problem is that the SM wiring for the COS-11 works
fine for the SM and is very simple but it won't then work with the
UM400. If the COS-11 is wired for a UM400 then the gain (and
distortion) will be high when used with the SM. The simple wirings are
listed in the box labeled "SM Only" of the PDF listed below.

If you want wiring so that you can go back and forth between the SM
and a UM400 (or UM100,200,700,LM) then you need to wire the COS-11 (or
other 3 wire mics) with a source resistor in the TA5M connector.

Rather than detail the various wirings here, go to page 13 of this
PDF.

http://www.lectrosonics.com/manuals/smman.pdf

All the compatible wirings are explained. Go to the box that is
labeled "Compatible with other Lectrosonics Transmitters" and look at
the second diagram on the left labeled "Compatible Configuration for
3-wire Lavaliere Microphones That Require an External Resistor (such
as Cos-11)".

Everything should now be clear, or at least a little less murky. We
will eventually change all the input stages of our transmitters over
to the SM style input. We will then give the older transmitters new
rev letters so you will have a chance to wire the mics correctly. Note
that the wiring for 2 wire microphones (Countryman, Sennheiser, etc.)
and for line level does not change.

This was not a casual alteration to the long time wiring standard at
Lectro; the newer input system works much (MUCH!) better in terms of
handling a wider range of microphones and input levels.

Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
Lectrosonics

On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 09:00:22 -0500, "John Blankenship, CAS" <"John
Post by unknown
Post by d rosen
I'm going to
make up a "how to" sheet on wiring one of these to an SM or UM
transmitter since you also need to get a 3.3k resistor, insulation
tubing and a jumper wire into the TA5F for a setup compatible with
both a UM and a SM transmitter. The SM by itself doesn't need the
resistor or the tubing if you can live with it working only with the
SM. Most people are going to want the harder to build, universal
solution, ]
if i am just wiring the cos-11 for use with a um400 does it need to
have the 3.3k resistor mentioned above?
if the mics i have at present (wired for the um400) do not have this
resitor what is the effect on the audio?
====SNIP====
I'm a little confused, too. I've always wired my COS-11s using the
instructions from the Lectrosonics site. This does not call for a
resistor, just the bypass capacitors. I'm using the UM200C transmitters
and this configuration has always worked fine. Are you saying that if I
add some 400s to my system I would need to rewire all my Sankens? What
about other lavs? Would they need to be rewired also?
Which transmitter(s) need the resistor, and why?
Thanks,
John Blankenship, C.A.S.
Indianapolis
(email: my initials at mw daht net)

wolf
2005-06-06 18:11:15 UTC
Permalink
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Tickets for Sound in Motion Pictures are $5 for the general public and $3
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d rosen
2005-06-06 19:14:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Fisher
Hi John and Daniel,
The wiring for the COS-11 on our web site is correct for all Lectro
transmitters except the SM. The SM wiring is a "little" different for
3 wire mics. The problem is that the SM wiring for the COS-11 works
fine for the SM and is very simple but it won't then work with the
UM400. If the COS-11 is wired for a UM400 then the gain (and
distortion) will be high when used with the SM. The simple wirings are
listed in the box labeled "SM Only" of the PDF listed below.
If you want wiring so that you can go back and forth between the SM
and a UM400 (or UM100,200,700,LM) then you need to wire the COS-11 (or
other 3 wire mics) with a source resistor in the TA5M connector.
Rather than detail the various wirings here, go to page 13 of this
PDF.
http://www.lectrosonics.com/manuals/smman.pdf
All the compatible wirings are explained. Go to the box that is
labeled "Compatible with other Lectrosonics Transmitters" and look at
the second diagram on the left labeled "Compatible Configuration for
3-wire Lavaliere Microphones That Require an External Resistor (such
as Cos-11)".
Everything should now be clear, or at least a little less murky. We
will eventually change all the input stages of our transmitters over
to the SM style input. We will then give the older transmitters new
rev letters so you will have a chance to wire the mics correctly. Note
that the wiring for 2 wire microphones (Countryman, Sennheiser, etc.)
and for line level does not change.
This was not a casual alteration to the long time wiring standard at
Lectro; the newer input system works much (MUCH!) better in terms of
handling a wider range of microphones and input levels.
Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
Lectrosonics
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 09:00:22 -0500, "John Blankenship, CAS" <"John
Post by unknown
Post by d rosen
I'm going to
make up a "how to" sheet on wiring one of these to an SM or UM
transmitter since you also need to get a 3.3k resistor, insulation
tubing and a jumper wire into the TA5F for a setup compatible with
both a UM and a SM transmitter. The SM by itself doesn't need the
resistor or the tubing if you can live with it working only with the
SM. Most people are going to want the harder to build, universal
solution, ]
if i am just wiring the cos-11 for use with a um400 does it need to
have the 3.3k resistor mentioned above?
if the mics i have at present (wired for the um400) do not have this
resitor what is the effect on the audio?
====SNIP====
I'm a little confused, too. I've always wired my COS-11s using the
instructions from the Lectrosonics site. This does not call for a
resistor, just the bypass capacitors. I'm using the UM200C transmitters
and this configuration has always worked fine. Are you saying that if I
add some 400s to my system I would need to rewire all my Sankens? What
about other lavs? Would they need to be rewired also?
Which transmitter(s) need the resistor, and why?
Thanks,
John Blankenship, C.A.S.
Indianapolis
(email: my initials at mw daht net)

larry,

thanks for the attempt to clear this up (for us both). i now understand
what you were saying in the thread about wiring for sm and um
transmitters, that much is now clear to me. unfortunately other
Post by Larry Fisher
if i am just wiring the cos-11 for use with a um400 does it need to
have the 3.3k resistor mentioned above?
i've now got this 1, the answer is no, just the capacitor as mentioned
by JB.
Post by Larry Fisher
if the mics i have at present (wired for the um400) do not have this
resitor what is the effect on the audio?
i've dismantled the TA5F again and double checked and even
photographed. there is no capacitor (or resistor) visable to the naked
eye. the mics were supplied by gotham along with the um400 (s/n 1960)
and uh400 transmitters and have worked adequetely although with some
distortion at high SPLs (but people say that cos-11 are like this
anyway).
the wiring of the cos-11 to TA5F plug is thus:
pin1: tied to 4
pin2: black
pin3: white
pin4: screen + tie to 1
pin5: n/a

(based upon the pdf posted this would seem to be the wiring appropriate
for a lectro m150 lavaliere)

so are my cos-11/TA5Fs wired wrong or what?
would they sound better if they were wired liked JB's
do i need to contact gotham about this?

maybe i need to get myself rewired as my head is really starting to
spin.

dan.
Larry Fisher
2005-06-06 19:56:26 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dan,
The wiring you have is absolutely fine for a UM400. You only need the
external resistor if you want to wire it for both an SM and the UM400.
The external capacitors are usually not needed. Some mics are
sensitive to RF (not the COS11) even if it isn't AM modulated. For
those possibilities we recommend external capacitors as a belt and
suspenders solution.
LarryF
Lectro
Post by d rosen
larry,
thanks for the attempt to clear this up (for us both). i now understand
what you were saying in the thread about wiring for sm and um
transmitters, that much is now clear to me. unfortunately other
Post by d rosen
if i am just wiring the cos-11 for use with a um400 does it need to
have the 3.3k resistor mentioned above?
i've now got this 1, the answer is no, just the capacitor as mentioned
by JB.
Post by d rosen
if the mics i have at present (wired for the um400) do not have this
resitor what is the effect on the audio?
i've dismantled the TA5F again and double checked and even
photographed. there is no capacitor (or resistor) visable to the naked
eye. the mics were supplied by gotham along with the um400 (s/n 1960)
and uh400 transmitters and have worked adequetely although with some
distortion at high SPLs (but people say that cos-11 are like this
anyway).
pin1: tied to 4
pin2: black
pin3: white
pin4: screen + tie to 1
pin5: n/a
(based upon the pdf posted this would seem to be the wiring appropriate
for a lectro m150 lavaliere)
so are my cos-11/TA5Fs wired wrong or what?
would they sound better if they were wired liked JB's
do i need to contact gotham about this?
maybe i need to get myself rewired as my head is really starting to
spin.
dan.
d rosen
2005-06-06 20:25:37 UTC
Permalink
thanks larry,

any tips on head re wiring? :-)

and now that i'm laughing again it does make me chuckle how you guy's
call braces-suspenders, especially given that us brits usually seem to
be associated with being camp and effeminate by the rest of the english
speaking new world. perhaps not helped by high camp brit baddies in
hollywood films.

suspenders hold up british girls stockings, so it's good to know there
is the possibilty for a little lingerie in the sound department if only
through transatlantic misunderstandings.

dan
Larry Fisher
2005-06-06 21:22:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by d rosen
thanks larry,
any tips on head re wiring? :-)
Yeah,
Send the old head and $350 for handling and shipping to your favorite
dealer.
Larry F

p.s. I'm waiting on a new set of precision strippers (two weeks and
$147) to restart the saga of wiring a COS11 to a TA5F. I think the
trick is to remove the insulation perfectly without distorting the
wire.
unknown
2005-06-07 01:16:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Fisher
p.s. I'm waiting on a new set of precision strippers (two weeks and
$147) to restart the saga of wiring a COS11 to a TA5F. I think the
trick is to remove the insulation perfectly without distorting the
wire.
My precision strippers are a very small pair of $5 flat diagonal cutters
from Radio Shack.

Today I wired the COS-11 that I just received as a replacement. As I
promised, I paid attention to my methods in case there's something I do
that can benefit others here. I don't seem to find tiny wires and
connectors as much of an issue as some do.

Having the right tools helps. I find that the number one thing needed,
however, is patience. I make it a point not to do this type of fine
work if I'm in a hurry. That helps immensely.

The soldering iron I usually use for this is a small, rechargeable
battery powered unit with a needle tip. However, today the SRBPUWANT
didn't hold a sufficient charge and I used a standard Weller SP-23.
It's pretty hot for such tiny connectors but with a deft touch, it works
fine.

Actually, having an iron that is too small for a job can often damage
components more easily than one that is a bit too hot since it requires
that the connections are heated too long and the heat has too much time
to be transferred to other areas. A proper connection is made when you
have just enough time to "melt in" the solder. Then, you should keep
the joint stationary until it has cooled sufficiently. The iron should
be applied to the connection, a touch of solder applied between the iron
and the connection and then the connection, in turn should heat the
solder that you apply above the connection, melting it into the
connection. I hope I said that right. For such tiny connections as
these, however, it's hard to actually do it that way, so I just do the
best I can.

One of the most important solding tips I can offer is to properly tin
each part of a connection before soldering the connection. That makes a
big difference.

Okay, here are the steps I used today to put a TA5 connector onto a COS-11:

Step 01: I cut the COS-11 cable to the length I want it to be. I make
sure to leave three or four inches extra in case of a re-do.

Step 02: I circumcise the outer insulation (of the wire -- come on, pay
attention). I do this by nibbling carefully around the perimeter (with
the small diagonal cutters -- not my teeth). I then strip the outer
insulation off. The technique I use might have something to do with my
success with tiny wires in general. To strip the insulation off, I use
the small pair of $5 flat diagonal cutters but I don't squeeze the
cutters tight. I hold them in such a way that I am controlling the
"bite." Something akin to using the combination of my hand and the
cutters as an infinitely adjustable pair of wire strippers. Here, a lot
of stripping experience helps. It helps even more if the stripping was
done with wires as opposed to garments.

Step 03: I unbraid the shield and pull it out apart from the two
insulated leads. Since there is such a thick bundle of shield wires,
along with a drain, I split the bundle in about half and trim one of the
halves down to where I circumcised the cable initially, and then I twist
the other group of shield wires into a nice, neat single lead.

Step 04: Using the stripping method described above, I strip the
insulation off of the two leads. I don't circumcise these -- they're
too small -- I just use the method I described -- but sometimes it takes
a few careful passes to get the insulation free. The trick is to leave
the inside conductors as untouched as possible. A lot of experience
with a lot of different wire types helps here.

Step 05: I separate the three leads (Black, White, & Ground) from each
other so I can get at them easily.

Step 06: I light a match.

Step 07: I carefully burn off the nonconductive "strength threads" that
accompany the wires. I'm careful not to use too much flame or I'll
damage the insulation.

Step 08: I twist each of the three leads to compact and straighten it.

Step 09: I tin each of the three leads with solder and a soldering
iron. Just like with the match, too much heat will damage the insulation.

Step 10: I examine each of the three leads to make sure that they are
tinned.

Step 11: I trim the excess length from the tinned leads.

Step 12: I thread the necessary pieces of the TA5 onto the cable.

Step 13: I thread the two pieces of heat shrink tubing, that I'll use,
onto the cable.

Step 14: I make a loose knot around the pieces that are threaded onto
the cable to keep them from accidentally falling off as I'm
concentrating on other steps.

Step 15: I make a small vice out of a pair of pliers and a rubber band.

Step 16: I position the connector -- pin side up -- in the jaws of the
"vice."

Step 17: I tin each of the leads of the connector with solder. Careful
here, too much heat will damage the connector.

Step 18: I solder the jumper into place.

Step 19: Soldering the two capacitors into place is one of the
trickiest stages. I use the surface mount type that are available from
Lectrosonics. First, holding it with tiny needle-nose pliers, tin the
edges of the capacitor and then carefully tack one side into place, then
the other, then resolder each, leaving time for it to cool in between.

Step 20: I solder the three leads into place.

Step 21: I check the wiring instructions to see that everything is
connected properly.

Step 22: I inspect each connection with an 8x loupe.

Step 23: I carefully plug the receptacle portion of the connector into
a transmitter and test it out. Special care is required when removing
the receptacle (I use needle-nose pliers) since the connector isn't
assembled at this point.

Step 24: I either (a) rejoice or (b) back up a few steps and redo parts
of the job.

Step 25: I slide the smaller heat shrink tubing into place and
carefully shrink it using a candle or small alcohol lamp.

Step 26: I assemble the connector and crimp the strain reliefs.

Step 27: I finish assembling the connector and slide the outer piece of
heat shrink tubing into place and shrink it down.

Step 28: I clean the heat shrink tubing with alcohol to remove any
carbon residue.

Step 29: I do a final test.

Step 30: I either (a) rejoice or (b) back up a few steps and redo parts
of the job.

The actual job takes about an hour. Finding where I left a tool I need
takes an indeterminate length of time.

This seems like a lot of work, and I guess it is, but if I'm patient --
and fantasize that I have a couple of scantily clad female assistants --
the time goes by quickly.

I may have left some steps out but this is the gist of how I wire up
COS-11 connectors. This is either the 8th or 9th one I've done. I've
also done B6s, and various others.

Stay tuned for some scenes from next week's episode...


John Blankenship, C.A.S.
Indianapolis
(email: my initials at mw daht net)


André Boisvert
2005-06-07 02:36:21 UTC
Permalink
Step 31: Have a beer and pat yourself on the back.

I do my own cables but the Sanken......not ready for that yet.

André
Larry Fisher
2005-06-07 18:48:12 UTC
Permalink
Hi John,
I'll say it a few different ways. In short, if you don't use a
resistor, the three wire wiring for a UM series transmitter is
different than an SM transmitter. Or I could say that there are three
wiring schemes; one for a UM series, a second for the SM and a third
way (with a resistor) that is compatible with both the SM and UM.

Here's the long way around. The standard (website) wiring for a UM400
(or UM100,200,700) does not require an external resistor. The source
resistor is internal to the UM models and is between pin 4 and pin 3.

The simple wiring for the SM also does not require a resistor. But the
built in source resistor is tied from pin 5 to ground internal to the
SM.

The problem is that these two wiring schemes are different and use
different pins. So neither of these wiring schemes use an external
resistor but they aren't compatible. So if you wire for a UM200 using
the web site scheme, it will work for the UM100, UM200,UM300(Euro),
UM400,UM500(Euro) UM700(digital) and the LM. If you use this wiring
scheme with the SM, the gain will be high and the distortion at high
levels will be 7%. However, iIf you wire the simple way for the SM,
it will work very well but only for the SM.

Since many users will have combinations of Lectro transmitters and
want to switch mics back and forth, we have a compatible wiring setup
that uses a resistor in the TA5F. This means that we don't have to
worry about the differences in the transmitterinputs. So neither the
UM or SM require the resistor but if you want a COS11 wired to be
interchangeable between the UM and SM you will have to use an external
source resistor.

Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
Lectrosonics
Post by Larry Fisher
Hi John and Daniel,
The wiring for the COS-11 on our web site is correct for all Lectro
transmitters except the SM. The SM wiring is a "little" different for
3 wire mics. The problem is that the SM wiring for the COS-11 works
fine for the SM and is very simple but it won't then work with the
UM400. If the COS-11 is wired for a UM400 then the gain (and
distortion) will be high when used with the SM. The simple wirings are
listed in the box labeled "SM Only" of the PDF listed below.
If you want wiring so that you can go back and forth between the SM
and a UM400 (or UM100,200,700,LM) then you need to wire the COS-11 (or
other 3 wire mics) with a source resistor in the TA5M connector.
Okay, that's even more confusing. You said that, "The wiring for the
COS-11 on our web site is correct for all Lectro transmitters except
the
SM." Then, you say the SM does not require a resistor. The wiring
diagram on your web site does not include a resistor. However, you
said
that the UM400 requires a resistor and the SM does not. So, that
would
appear to be the opposite of your statement. Hence the confusion.


So, if I wire for my UM200C transmitters according to the diagram on
your web site (which does NOT include the resistor) with what other
transmitters am I compatible?


Thanks,


John Blankenship, C.A.S.
Indianapolis
unknown
2005-06-07 19:33:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Fisher
Hi John,
I'll say it a few different ways. In short, if you don't use a
resistor, the three wire wiring for a UM series transmitter is
different than an SM transmitter. Or I could say that there are three
wiring schemes; one for a UM series, a second for the SM and a third
way (with a resistor) that is compatible with both the SM and UM.
Here's the long way around. The standard (website) wiring for a UM400
(or UM100,200,700) does not require an external resistor. The source
resistor is internal to the UM models and is between pin 4 and pin 3.
The simple wiring for the SM also does not require a resistor. But the
built in source resistor is tied from pin 5 to ground internal to the
SM.
The problem is that these two wiring schemes are different and use
different pins. So neither of these wiring schemes use an external
resistor but they aren't compatible. So if you wire for a UM200 using
the web site scheme, it will work for the UM100, UM200,UM300(Euro),
UM400,UM500(Euro) UM700(digital) and the LM. If you use this wiring
scheme with the SM, the gain will be high and the distortion at high
levels will be 7%. However, iIf you wire the simple way for the SM,
it will work very well but only for the SM.
Since many users will have combinations of Lectro transmitters and
want to switch mics back and forth, we have a compatible wiring setup
that uses a resistor in the TA5F. This means that we don't have to
worry about the differences in the transmitterinputs. So neither the
UM or SM require the resistor but if you want a COS11 wired to be
interchangeable between the UM and SM you will have to use an external
source resistor.
Okay, now it's making sense. The way I read an earlier post, one of the
transmitters required a resistor and one didn't and it appeared (okay,
to me, anyway) that you were talking about two different wiring schemes.
So, now the light dawns that neither one requires a resistor but to be
fully compatible with BOTH there is a THIRD wiring scheme that requires
a resistor. Got it. Thanks.

To put it another way, the three wiring schemes are: "Yours," "Mine,"
and "Ours."

If I may suggest, in your online database, this is something that is
worth taking the time to make crystal clear as I would guess it could
easily be the source of confusion for others. When I last visited it,
the database only showed the standard wiring for UM200/UM400.

Thanks for clarifying.

John Blankenship, C.A.S.
Indianapolis
(email: my initials at mw daht net)


Larry Fisher
2005-06-07 20:10:31 UTC
Permalink
Hi John,
I like your description. I do know that as far as closet space goes,
it's just "hers" and "ours".

I will get the wiring clarified on the web site.
LarryF
Lectro

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 14:33:49 -0500, "John Blankenship, CAS" <"John
Blankenship, CAS"> wrote:
[snip]
Post by unknown
To put it another way, the three wiring schemes are: "Yours," "Mine,"
and "Ours."
If I may suggest, in your online database, this is something that is
worth taking the time to make crystal clear as I would guess it could
easily be the source of confusion for others. When I last visited it,
the database only showed the standard wiring for UM200/UM400.
Thanks for clarifying.
John Blankenship, C.A.S.
Indianapolis
(email: my initials at mw daht net)

d rosen
2005-06-07 22:02:01 UTC
Permalink
larry,

just when you thought it was safe to bsck in the water. i want wire a 3
wire tram for my um400 and don't need compatibility to an sm.
i can't find a wiring diagram that doesn't use resistors or capacitors
on the lectro site.
how would i wire the tram without the above components and
compatibility?

dan
Larry Fisher
2005-06-07 22:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dan,
This URL

http://www.lectrosonics.com/cgi-bin/microphone_wiring.pl

gets to the mic wiring section (which you may have already done).
Scroll the list down to "Tram and Sonotrim 3 wire". For a three wire
setup of a Tram, there is no mention of a resistor. There is an RF
bypass capactior. You may leave the capacitor out, since it is a belt
and suspenders part. If you do leave it out, wind the cable around the
antenna, case and do other weird things with the mic wire and listen
for little noises or birdies. Better to hear them now rather than
later. If all seems relatively quiet, then the mic is OK without the
cap.
Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
Lectrosonics
p.s. The crew got info for the SM on the mic wiring page already. We
will integrate it betterin the future.
Post by d rosen
larry,
just when you thought it was safe to bsck in the water. i want wire a 3
wire tram for my um400 and don't need compatibility to an sm.
i can't find a wiring diagram that doesn't use resistors or capacitors
on the lectro site.
how would i wire the tram without the above components and
compatibility?
dan
r***@axelero.hu
2005-06-08 09:04:02 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the info, Larry, and all the others. This is the kind of
info why I visit this NG.

And Larry, if you finished wiring the Sanken, and produced a few mics
with no wires at all, send them to me please. I will alawsy wanted to
experiment with the COS-11 :))))


Cheers
Balazs Rozgonyi
R-Provideo Hungary
Larry Fisher
2005-06-08 15:26:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi Balazs,
At 1.5 inches per experiment I've only used up a foot of COS11 cable.
Once I've got the new strippers, I'll try a few of John B's
suggestions and see how it works. There's a 40 page document coming
out of this, I can tell. <|:o)

Best Regards,
Larry Fisher
Lectrosonics
Post by r***@axelero.hu
Thanks for the info, Larry, and all the others. This is the kind of
info why I visit this NG.
And Larry, if you finished wiring the Sanken, and produced a few mics
with no wires at all, send them to me please. I will alawsy wanted to
experiment with the COS-11 :))))
Cheers
Balazs Rozgonyi
R-Provideo Hungary
unknown
2005-06-07 22:15:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Fisher
I like your description. I do know that as far as closet space goes,
it's just "hers" and "ours".
LOL!

John Blankenship, C.A.S.
Indianapolis
(email: my initials at mw daht net)


unknown
2005-06-06 19:28:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry Fisher
Hi John and Daniel,
The wiring for the COS-11 on our web site is correct for all Lectro
transmitters except the SM. The SM wiring is a "little" different for
3 wire mics. The problem is that the SM wiring for the COS-11 works
fine for the SM and is very simple but it won't then work with the
UM400. If the COS-11 is wired for a UM400 then the gain (and
distortion) will be high when used with the SM. The simple wirings are
listed in the box labeled "SM Only" of the PDF listed below.
If you want wiring so that you can go back and forth between the SM
and a UM400 (or UM100,200,700,LM) then you need to wire the COS-11 (or
other 3 wire mics) with a source resistor in the TA5M connector.
Okay, that's even more confusing. You said that, "The wiring for the
COS-11 on our web site is correct for all Lectro transmitters except the
SM." Then, you say the SM does not require a resistor. The wiring
diagram on your web site does not include a resistor. However, you said
that the UM400 requires a resistor and the SM does not. So, that would
appear to be the opposite of your statement. Hence the confusion.

So, if I wire for my UM200C transmitters according to the diagram on
your web site (which does NOT include the resistor) with what other
transmitters am I compatible?

Thanks,

John Blankenship, C.A.S.
Indianapolis
(email: my initials at mw daht net)


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